zico
1:25 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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I think you could argue that the quality of footballers world wide is on the decline these days rather than just in England. Look at the quality of the last European Championships or the World Cups of the last 8 or so years, on the whole the quality was pretty dire.
The Dutch are going through a barren time right now and the French, Germans and Italians have had their low points in recent years. The Hungarians haven't produced any real quality for decades and even the Brazil and Argentina lack the quality that they had back in the 70's and 80's.
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wd40
12:46 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Every where on the weekend....
Coaches ( men with free time )
top track suit on their name on the side telling kids to run up and down then jog ,move on to wave their hands about then do 2 yard passing for a hour with each other.
Then the match ! (Coach juggles the ball as he picks the sides)
15 minute match with no tackling and 2 touch only .
Coach goes home feeling good about him self and
buys another track suit on line and a new whistle.
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Hammer and Pickle
11:56 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0trWGUNkY
Maybe in this one the camera angle doesn't catch the look of bemusement.
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Russ of the BML
9:43 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Hammer and Pickle 4:47 Thu Nov 10
"Anyway, it always makes me think of that beautiful Joey Barton moment and the look on total bemusement on Zlatan Ibrahimović's face"
What was that then, mate?
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Hammer and Pickle
4:47 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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In my day the extremely anti-intellectual culture did not seem to have a very positive effect on the coaching methods. Maybe it's changed but then I don't think so - certainly not if the likes of James McCarthy and the performance of the England team are anything to go by (I look forward to them being played off the part these days).
Then it seemed any sign of basic reading, writing or thinking skills was actually treated as a threat to the dressing room, as if the presence of people able to string two sentences together would somehow discourage anyone from playing the game.
Anyway, it always makes me think of that beautiful Joey Barton moment and the look on total bemusement on Zlatan Ibrahimović's face... maybe he has a better sense of what he is dealing with now.
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Chigwell
4:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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There isn't much doubt that UK footballers are very much second tier in the world order these days.To blame it on a lack of coaching, facilities, equipment, or financial support is completely off-target. What is missing is self-discipline, commitment, the desire and motivation to improve. Up to the 1970s (when we were a world force in football) the chances were that promising players had to earn their income and and organise their training and playing around other jobs. A decent young footballer these days has riches and comforts thrust his way by professional clubs just to stop him signing for someone else. Everything is made too easy for him and the result is that he loses the drive to improve.
Exactly the same thing happened in British tennis, which (due to Wimbledon revenues) has long been flush with money. Our best young players were cosseted and coached to the point where they thought they were pretty damn good enough. Players in eastern Europe, from far less privileged backgrounds, continued to fight to be better. Andy Murray only got as good as he is by absenting himself from the British self-defeating system, and his lack of complacency stayed with him all the way to the top.
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Russ of the BML
2:45 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Nagel 10:40 Thu Nov 10
Yes, good point. But I don't think I made myself as clear as I'd liked. I meant just keeping it simple. Ball down at feet and playing. Let the kids natural ability develop rather than drills and actually directly teaching someone to control, pass, control, pass, control, pass. Football is a very natural game and kids should be left to play.
But you are very right too about strength and speed. Always a bug bear of mine. That should come when kids are older. Once they have developed their natural feel for the game.
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wrighty
2:02 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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I think the fa and clubs try too hard for a solution, they need to invest in local clubs and football needs to be cheaper. The level 1 is shit, if you can't pass that or the 2 then you shouldn't claim to know anything about football. There needs to be more platforms for kids to play.
Too many coaches are after enhancing their own cv and forgetting the important people.
Kids learn loads just by playing football, too many cones and initials on tracksuits and not enough kids just enjoying it.
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Northern Sold
1:57 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Does this apply to English football as well?
In a nutshell Yes... the football academies for youngsters are an absolute and utter joke... and the FA manual for youth football needs launching into the garbage...
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zico
12:06 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Rossal 10:56 Thu Nov 10
Agree with that. I did my levels 1 and 2 back in the early 2000's and level 3 was really expensive from what I can remember and yet all ex pro's could do it for free by all accounts.
I don't know what it's like up in London but down here you hardly see any kids playing in the parks after school or in the holidays anymore unlike when I was younger we would be out all the time 10-30 of us having a kick about either with jumpers for goalposts or by moving the hockey goals up the park. Then every lunch/break time at school we would all be kicking a tennis ball around in the playground. Mind you I can't remember anyone who made it as a pro and yet loads of us played so it shows how difficult it is now when all the kids seem to do is maybe Saturday mornings at local Junior Clubs. Less kids playing/less kids to choose from.
I don't think it's the coaching so much although that plays a part, I think a large majority of kids probably think they have made it once they get to a pro Club now. I don't think they are expected to clean the pro's boots or sweep the stadiums anymore.
With the coaching I think mistakes are being coached out of players. As someone below said where are the dribblers these days? To play risky forward passes or trying to dribble around a defender you are going to make mistakes but it's all safe sideways possession based. You only had to look at the way Hodgson battered Ross Barklay for giving the ball away and the last two years he went backwards although it seems Koeman has let him off the leash this year.
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Rossal
11:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Academies is an Hour and half
COE an hour or something along those lines
I dont think it is policed very much though and the clubs use various tactics to get around it
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Sven Roeder
11:17 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Don't the really young kids stay with their local clubs and train at the likes of WHU once a week or so?
And aren't there rules about kids having to live within a certain distance from the club?
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Nicey
11:12 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Russ I agree to a point
I would say that pro clubs can sign and affiliate a player to them but they remain at their local club until 15. Perhaps there could be some interventions along the way but the late nights, relying on parents to drive miles, stress etc doesn't help development.
Let the kids play. Invest in local clubs. Make it fun. Use the ball and then pick the best.
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Sven Roeder
11:12 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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They may have been a bit of a free for all but playing in the street was effectively a small sided game which needed quick feet and sharp passing
JUMPERS FOR GOALPOSTS
MARVELLOUS
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Rossal
11:10 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Interesting bit from Arry today. Gives his take on youngsters in this country and how things have changed coaching wise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3921228/HARRY-REDKNAPP-England-bland-play-no-flair-Gareth-Southgate-great-lad-m-not-excited-anyone.html
Says it how he is, think the FA missed a trick not offering him a adversary role over someone young like Howe
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Nicey
11:09 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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I was at a club where everything was down with the ball at your feet
The long runs round the field
The short sprints
The briefing sessions while juggling
Every player had their own ball and was made to value and respect it
There was never a moment when people would be stood still doing nothing.
I have the worst touch out of every player I know so I have no idea if it worked or not
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Far Cough
11:08 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Cant say I have ever seen kids playing in the street with a football in the 20+ years I have lived in London.
Sad but true, in my day, that's what you would have seen on many streets, 20 / 30 a side games that went on all day and only stopped when it got dark
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Sven Roeder
11:06 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Cant say I have ever seen kids playing in the street with a football in the 20+ years I have lived in London.
And the only playing fields I am aware of near where I live in NW London belong to a school (private) and have huge fuck off fences with razor wire on the top of them.
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Rossal
10:56 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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The coaching is good
The ability and facilities to become a good coach are not there. Coaching badges on the FA are ridiculously expensive
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ornchurch ammer
10:49 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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There are a lot more qualified coaches now purely because of local FA rules that you must be at least Level 1 to manage a junior team. Level 1 is basic but a lot of these coaches go on to do Level 2 or the Youth Modules and some do the Goalkeeping courses. This means that a lot of kids get better coaching with their clubs than what they do if they train with a professional club.
Does anyone really think that professional clubs assign their top coaches to the kids? No they are youngsters on minimum pay who do it for the kudos of saying that they coach at X, Y or Z.
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Nagel
10:40 Thu Nov 10
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?
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Russ,
The issue is not kids being over-coached technically. Quite the opposite. It's pretty obvious that the English are technically way behind their European counterparts where youth coaching concentrates on technique - passing, control, etc. and not on the physical part of the game - strength, speed, etc. which is what happens here.
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